[CLUG] [OT] Larry Ellison speech (was College stuff)

[Thor]

On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 12:09:27PM +0100, Ronan Kirby wrote:
> > But, none of those people could get a job as head sysadmin in
> > google[0]. Because you need a degree/masters to get any real cool, senior
> > techie (non-suit wearing) postions.
> 
> This is actually kina unusual in this day and age. Normally its a case of
> "blah blah blah degree or X years relevant industry experience". I also
> notice that they don't have such a requirment for Senior Network Engineer.
>

I can certainly state that getting senior tech positions does not require a 
collegiate degree.  Very few of those I know in such positions have them.  Many
'Human Resource' departments have them on thier list of 'requirements' but when
they cannot get a college graduate with the actual knowledge they find numerous
very qualified applicants without degrees.  Quite often they have far better
work habits and have a much better chance at longevity in thier workplace.

> > If you want to play with BIG toys then you need an internationally
> > recognised qualification such as a degree or a masters.
> 

'BIG toys' ??

> I'm sure its possible (although not necessarily common) to bull sh1te your
> way through a degree. Where as _proven_ is a different story. And as I'm
> sure you will agree Dave, its not the degree that gets you the job, its
> the stuff you did while in and after college that gets you the job.
>

In America the 'education' *system* is becoming more and more about social
conditioning.  Rather frightening actually.  Oh there is still a bit of 
actual education to be found but you much pursue it actively usually by finding
the right professor; ie one who has passion for his knowlege and passing it 
along rather than those who are going through the motions, puking out mindless
information to be lapped up and regurgatated later on exam by 'students.'

Sound harsh?  So is the experience of whatching the majority of students at 
a college bull shit thier way through a degree.  It is far more common than
one would think.

> Anyone can be taught stuff, but its the people who can go off and teach
> them selves and learn on the fly that imho are worth the money![1]
> 

Exactly.  And although I *personally* think Larry Ellison is a talking crack 
monkey and quite possibly a really evil man this is the basic point he was
making and I would agree with him with the stipulation of an American 
enviornment.  I do not think it would be quite so true in most anywhere else 
in the world, certainly not Europe.

America has this thing for underdogs and you will find that those who work
thier way up gather far more attention and respect than the majority of the
fresh college graduates who have just spent four plus years learning how to 
jump through hoops.  Those folks have thier purpose but very few are able to
pick up the initiative, work ethic and desire to excel in four plus years at
a university.  

Of course if all those whom Larry addressed dropped out it would make it a 
little bit tougher for those of us who already have:)

> > Amercians don't
> > understand what a national certificate/diploma is and only understand
> > degrees & masters.
> 
> Lets not start on what Americans do and don't understand ;o)

I agree to both of these statements.  Just be glad you are not here for the 
election years.  

Cheers,

Eric


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