[ILUG] Something to look forward to after Christmas

[Dermot McGahon]

>>>>> "John" == John P Looney <john at antefacto.com> writes:

    John>  When those views are crazy and illogical ? I understand
    John> that RMS has done some great work. That the GPL is a
    John> fabulous idea. But he really believes that everyone could
    John> make a living the same way he did. And that's nuts.

In your opinion.

    John>  I'm sorry, but anyone that can identify free software and
    John> access to guns as part of the same struggle for freedom is
    John> crazy. And I don't see the arguments as logical.

Look. I agree with every word you are saying. I probably came across
stronger than I intended but really all I am saying is that calling
people names doesn't help anyone. It's the cult of the personality and
it has nothing to do with technical achievement.

    John>  That's a juvenile view. You can be on the sideline, just
    John> making a living without being either, and not considering
    John> that can make you very rude.

No need to tell me how to think. Or to call me juvenile or rude. It's
a philosophical matter and I would be more than happy to discuss it
with you offlist.

    Liam> because in RMS's case it is. He advocates a communist
    Liam> approach that doesn't work. Companies who say they support
    Liam> Open Source don't necessarily. They'll Open Source parts of
    Liam> their software which don't give a competitive advantage to
    Liam> other companies. They're still going to keep some of it
    Liam> proprietary.  I've not yet found a company that can survive
    Liam> _solely_ on Open Source, and not become a services company.

This is true. What we are talking about it the commoditisation of
operating systems and computing infrastructure. It will happen, going
by other industries throughout history.

    Liam> If you like RMS's personal values, then you're weirder than
    Liam> most on this list. I _personally_ find him revolting. I
    Liam> didn't have a majorly long period of time to talk to him,
    Liam> but it wasn't something I enjoyed.

I don't know the man. I do know he gets a lot of stick though. I
always wonder when people get a lot of stick for not 100% apparent
reasons.

    Liam> And if you're female, wear brocolli :) Neither of them deal
    Liam> with ladies in a friendly/nice manner (at least IMO)

Well, fair enough.

    Harry> This simply isn't true.  There was a computer industry
    Harry> before Microsoft became the giant it is, and before there
    Harry> was much in the way of open source, and I worked in it and
    Harry> enjoyed my work. Back then RMS and others were just
    Harry> beginning the open source stuff, which really harped back
    Harry> to the time in the sixties when computers often came with
    Harry> the source code of their operating systems on a tape.

It's not true that without the FSF, the BSD zoo, Linux and open source
that we wouldn't all be working with proprietary tools and equipment? 
I think it is true. Yes there was a computers industry but it was
proprietary. Things cost a fortune that can be achieved very cheaply
these days.

But, if all you are saying is that there is more to the picture than
Microsoft then of course I agree totally. In terms of hobby or home
based computing though there was diversity in the eighties with BBC,
Atari, Acorn, Apple, Sinclair and finally the AT/XT. Then a severe
lack of diversity most of the way through the nineties and now it
looks like there is much improved levels of diversity again. I welcome
it, hope it continues and will do my best to avoid the cult of the
personality. Maybe I've had my eyes closed and it's been there all the
time but for some reason these seem to be good times.

    Harry> Folks tend to forget that it was largely because of the
    Harry> Internet/UseNet that the early open source movement
    Harry> grew. Who paid for that back in the seventies and eighties
    Harry> in the USA? DARPA, Federal Funding!  For liberal minded
    Harry> Europeans, that was the Evil Empire in those days.

If you are not part of the revolution in your twenties you have no
heart. If you are not part of the establishment in your thirties you
have no brain.

    Harry> Like kate, (or an Ent) I'm not sure I'm on anyone's side,
    Harry> because I'm not sure anyone is on my side entirely.

Well said, and go on the Ents. I'm on the side of freedom of
expression and civility. That's all. Apart from that, live and let
live. I'll shut up now before I get myself in any deeper. Cornish
proverb; when in hole, stop digging.

Regards,

Dermot.
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