[IIU] Re: [ILUG] OT But esat unlimited has been scrapped

[Alex French]

Chris,

I agree, but the only way to see if we have "a groundswell" is to ask if 
anyone's interested. I'm sure you'll agree.

Alex.

At 15:00 28/03/2001, Chris Higgins wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > Perhaps you're not adequately familiar with the charter or aims of the
> > ISOC. Take a minute to look at their web site.
>
>Alex - you missed the point - ISOC might be ideal for Ireland, but without
>a ground-swell of community support those involved in the Irish charter will
>neither have the respect or support of the community.. In the same way
>that the .ie Usenet committee has become something of a joke.. It was
>full of promise that hasn't been delivered. (No reflection on the committee
>members - if you'll re-read my original mail you should see the context
>in which I placed my comments on the .ie Usenet process).
>
>I'm not for a minute suggesting that Ireland doesn't setup an ISOC chapter.
>I'm just saying that setting up a chapter needs to be done because we want
>an ISOC chapter..
>
> >
> > As for petitions and letter, it all sounds nice in practice, but I think
> > it's a naive view to think that the regulator gives a toss about a few
> > disgruntled netheads, I'm sorry to say. This goes way beyond that, and is
> > mostly a political issue. What is needed is a body that can play in the
> > same circles where these decisions are being made.
>
>Again, if you re-read my email, you'll see that I not disagreeing with you,
>it takes more than a petition and a letter, it takes a community of users
>standing
>up and shouting for local loop unbundling.
>
>Only when you have a crowd can you start to form a representative body... so
>it's people first - then body..
>
>Let's not create another lifeless organisation which doesn't have community
>support or interest.. It'll just be a waste of peoples time.. (Unless as I
>said earlier, the people involved are motivated by the political step up it
>gives). In which case the organisation (be that an Irish ISOC chapter, or
>any other organisation) is being used as an umbrella for political posturing..
>
>(The first person that suggests we need a polticial as a front to give this
>'credibility' deserves to be shot).
>
>This is a democracy, and I think that it's the people on the ground, suffering
>with 56k dialups (and slower) that should be sat in front of the reporters
>and TV cameras not another representative of an organisation that most of the
>irish users have never heard about.. You run the very strong risk of getting
>the same in-fighting that happened with the IIA (got it right this time), 
>where
>they originally claimed to support all irish internet users, and then it 
>became
>just those that will pay the membership fee, and now it's settling into being
>one of the usual 'old-boys-club' that we see far too often.
>
>Oh, and thanks very much - I know what the ISOC is :)
>
> >
> > Alex.
> >
> > At 10:04 28/03/2001, Chris Higgins wrote:
> > > > Perhaps IIU, or some of its people are interested in setting up a local
> > > > ISOC chapter? There is no operational Irish chapter at the moment (Alex
> > > > Gogan made a stab at setting on up a few years ago). ISOC carries much
> > > > international weight, and Ireland is one of the few civilized 
> countries
> > > not
> > > > to have a chapter.
> > > >
> > > > An ISOC UK rep will be in Dublin in a couple of weeks if anyone's
> > > > interested in meeting him to discuss.
> > > >
> > > > Alex.
> > --
> > Alex French
> > Product Architect                         Europe: +353 (87) 818
> > 8118
> > VIA NET.WORKS, Inc.                 US voicemail: (703) 464 8668
> > afrench at vianetworks.com             Fax: +353 (875) 818 8118
>
>--
>** Chris Higgins                         e: chris.higgins at horizon.ie **
>** Technical Business Development        tel: +353-1-6204916            **
>** Horizon Technology Group              fax: +353-1-6204949            **