[ILUG] ilug not ilag ... was [way OT] Word 2003 problems...

[Éibhear]

Hi Paul,

Paul Jakma wrote:
> Works fine on Fedora Core too. Plug it in, icon appears on desktop. 
> Works fine for users who would never post here if it didnt. The only 
> tricky bit is that they have to be aware they must 'unmount' the icon 
> before removing it.

The example I cite is one that has annoyed me about non-Mandrake distros 
for a while. Fedora Core 2, the most recent I have used, presented this 
problem. I will accept that it now works. It also, thankfully, works 
well on KNOPPIX 3.[89]. However, it's worth noting that on the distros I 
have tried it on, it's only in 2005 that they seem to be getting around 
to solving that feature-failure.

> I'm not sure whether either you misunderstood me, or whether you believe 
> Linux /should/ require technical expertise to use. If the latter case, I 
> really really hope most subscribers would disagree with you. But that 
> can't be - you must have misunderstood me.

I would like to have misunderstood you.
I am a firm believer that GNU/Linux, and any other general purpose 
computing environment shouldn't require technical expertise. We agree there.

> Because I think that Linux users (in the non "technical user" sense) 
> should not have to post to lists like this? Why ever would you disagree?

Because I'm concerned of what the definition of a technical user is, and 
who comes up with that definition. Going back to the original post, some 
people would regard the ability to change a word-processing document 
such that it displays "Page X of Y" rather than just "Page X" as technical.

There are always going to be people with problems that some would regard 
as non-technical. Basic applications like firefox, konqueror, 
OpenOffice, media players, e-mail user agents, etc. come as standard on 
distros. Strictly, none of these is Linux, but non-technical users don't 
always realise that, on the understandable grounds that Apple and 
Microsoft provide equivalents and [for want of a better description in 
some cases] support them. If the question "How do I block pop-ups in 
firefox?" was posted, would that be a technical, or non-technical, 
question? There was a query recently regarding bash and emacs lisp. 
Again, it's a question regarding the application layer. Neither is part 
of Linux. Where should the poster have been asked or told to go? 
ibug at bash.ie? ieug at emacs.ie? Definitely *not* ieag at emacs.ie? You don't 
want to irritate those Emacs administrators as they debate which is 
better: GNU Emacs or XEmacs.

It all depends on the perspective, but I would shudder to think that a 
community discussion forum I have derived a great deal of value from, 
and to which I try to contribute in order to add more value, arbitrarily 
sets a bar of technical use in order to discourage participation.
> 
> Note that I am *not* arguing that people should be discouraged from 
> seeking help here or otherwise becoming involved in the more technical 
> Linux / Unix user groups.

Noted. I would prefer that if the group names itself a user group, then 
all manners, classes and categories of users should be encouraged to 
participate. SAGE-IE has an admin's list.

> Merely that having to seek help is nearly 
> always a bug ;) when it comes to computers - hence, ideally one 
> shouldn't /need/ to seek help or feel compelled to join technical user 
> groups.

I disagree:
  * It's not always a bug.
  * If a bug arises, this list would be a very good
    reference for help.
  * If it's not a bug, there's the likelihood that the user just
    doesn't understand the concepts involved. Imagine a
    non-technical user coming from years using Windows systems
    trying to understand the difference between regular user
    accounts and root?

Questions will be asked on this list, and, using the simple criterion of 
they being somewhat related to Linux, should be answered helpfully. Even 
if it's "Don't know. Try http://www.<application>.*/."

> 
> Not everyone cares that much about the details of computing..
> 
> regards,

Éibhear

-- 
Éibhear Ó hAnluain
Dublin,
Ireland
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