Quoting Colm Buckley <colm at tuatha.org>:
> On 23 Jun 2005, at 10:22, Dave O' Connor wrote:
>> > And what is it about Gentoo that gets certain, normally reasonable,
> > debian
> > users frothing at the mouth.
>> I can actually take a stab at answering that one. Debian was the
> first distro to make the model of centralised binary distribution
> with regular, automatable updates work. It was a conscious move away
> from the Slack model of download-configure-make-install which led to
> so much heartache and grief (lack of dependency resolution, lack of
> consistent and rigorous rules about what a package should be and how
> it should behave, and so on). Debian's developers saw these as real
> impediments to Linux's adoption, as they made both installation and
> maintenance horribly difficult and time-consuming.
somthing gentoo has avoided, time consuming to upgrade maybe, but it does it all
automatically, no pain, and you can choose ehn, run an upgrade over night. no
>> Their solution *worked*. Debian systems can be installed in a jiffy,
> and kept up to date with virtually no administrator effort. Big win.
>> Then along comes Gentoo, promoting exactly the kind of local lunacy
> which Debian tried so hard to overcome. It's not that Gentoo is a
> threat to *Debian*, but rather that Gentoo, to Debian users and
> developers, represents a reversion to barbarism and is hence a threat
> to the maturity and usability of Linux as a whole. It's as though
> someone suddenly suggested that car buyers would be best served by
> shipping a bucket of parts to each home.
with a robot that makes if for you
>> This is my opinion as to why Debian users in particular don't like
> Gentoo. Debian has spent a lot of time and effort *crafting* a
> beautiful distribution, and we don't like the sheer ugliness of Gentoo.
and what is *ugly about gentoo, ?? its python based, there is nothing ugly about
python, or the way its implemented in gentoo. The portage system is robust, as
is the baselayout. Infact it teaches the user more about linux than a debian
install does. I never really fully understood the operation of linux, until I
There are python scripts to wrap all sorts of applications / drivers, for
example the way networking is done, a sinlge script for wireless regardless of
whether you use ndiswrapper or prism etc.
it may be many things, but ugly it certainly isn't.
>> > I can see some of your points but I also see that you're also
> > talking rubbish about it in some places. Whether that's because
> > you're uninformed or because you're spreading fud is something only
> > you can clarify.
>> Can you point out the rubbish? I'm definitely not uninformed; I
> installed Gentoo several times to try it out (it was sufficiently
> "different" to spark my interest), and I have no interest in
> spreading FUD. If you can point to something I've said which is
> demonstrably wrong, I'd love to be corrected.
well im not sure here you said this
>Portage is often cited as a Gentoo advantage, but every argument I've
>seen in its favour has been more than adequately answered by apt as
>implemented in the current Debian and Ubuntu systems.
1. in portage we have slots, so we can install multiple versions or different
applications, im not sure if apt can do this, i asked before , but I got no
2. as far as Im aware apt can not easily handle different builds, like in
portage if I want to install mplayer with framebuffer support, mmx , mmx2, ,
sse, sse2, but no opengl or X support. I can
3. USE="mmx,mmx2,ssse,sse2,-opengl,-X" emerge mplayer
4. Portage has lots of ebuilds ubuntu and debian miss, like I was saying before,
>> > There's nothing stopping you compiling the packages as a binary
> > package and getting them from your own local repository if you do
> > have 10,000 or even 100 machines.
>> ... in which case, why use Gentoo at all?
for every reason we mentioned in this discussion. I wont list them all again
>> > I'm happy with the distro I'm using. Maybe when I get another
> > machine I'll give it a spin but for now gentoo does exactly what I
> > want the way I want it and I see no advantages whatsoever moving to
> > ubuntu on machines that are working just fine.
>> Remember the original question : someone is looking for a *new*
> distribution to support AMD64. Ubuntu and Gentoo have both been
> suggested. If you want to stick with Gentoo on your existing
> systems, that's perfectly fine with me. I'm trying to argue the
> point that Ubuntu makes more sense than Gentoo for a new box. I
> would wager quite significant sums on Ubuntu requiring less effort to
> install and maintain, and having a more complete feature set and
> level of component integration, than Gentoo.
Ubunto faster to install yes, everything else no.
and btw ,
I was a bbc micro user
> Colm Buckley / colm at tuatha.org / +353 87 2469146
> Irish Linux Users' Group
Maintained by the ILUG website team. The aim of Linux.ie is to
support and help commercial and private users of Linux in Ireland. You can
display ILUG news in your own webpages, read backend
information to find out how. Networking services kindly provided by HEAnet, server kindly donated by
Dell. Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds,
used with permission. No penguins were harmed in the production or maintenance
of this highly praised website. Looking for the
Indian Linux Users' Group? Try here. If you've read all this and aren't a lawyer: you should be!