Thou shalt keep windows on thy machines (was Re: [ILUG] Naive..etc.)

[Michael Watterson]

paul at clubi.ie wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
>> Such as: Updating machine BIOS, and other firmware.
>
> - FreeDOS. Indeed, didn't/doesn't one PC vendor even use FreeDOS to
>   distribute bootable update floppy disk images?
>
> - You can also update many eeproms from Linux (ask Padraig Brady).
>
> - Some vendors even provide tools for Linux, such as Dell.
>
> - Some vendors put 'system partitions' on their machines (Compaq,
>   Dell), with a small bootable OS and various diagnostic and update
>   tools. (It's usually DOS and/or Win3.1, but it could be any OS -
>   the point is your machine has an OS-=independent, vendor-supported 
> way to
>   update ROMs that doesnt need more than a few tens of MB of disk
>   space).
>
> - Write your own firmware update. Ask the vendor for the procedure
>   and write a utility for your own OS.
>
> I'm sorry, but you're just making (rather poor) excuses.
>
>> Testing if problem is in software or hardware, eg Skype works under 
>> Windows XP for me, but not under Fedora-7. If I didn't test it under 
>> Windows, I'd have no idea where the problem lay.
>
> I dont know how to answer that one.
>
>>> That all non-windows users must keep a windows partition around?
>>
>> Yes, unless you are a masochist.
>>
>>> That non-windows users can not use all of their hardware?
>>
>> No. What is the connection with the previous question?
>> Or are you saying you can't spare any of your precious hard disk?
>
> A (modern) windows install costs at least 1GB, doesn't it? That's more 
> than 1% of many laptop disks, mine anyway, that could not be used 
> normally.
>
>> As I pointed out, if there _is_ a CD there may well be a question on 
>> it which you have to answer in order to register with your ISP, eg 
>> giving the password they gave you.
>
> That'd be mad. I don't know of ISPs who do that.
>
>>> The desire that it continue to remain possible to have a choice in
>>> what OS to run is not zealotry.
>>
>> Surely you are the person who is trying to stop people having a 
>> choice ...
>
> How exactly???? You're the one arguing that a windows-only ISP would 
> be a perfectly fine thing.
>
> Such ISPs are quite rare today, thankfully. So I really can't 
> understand why you'd argue it would be acceptable (especially on this 
> forum) for that to change.
Unless you are using a USB device, I don't think they ever existed. 
Unless you have USB, no ISP requires use of CD. Any password needed for 
Router/Modem PPPoE is in the welcome letter or available from Support. 
In the case of a PCMCIA 3G modem recently, I stuck it into a Linksys 
Router to avoid installing any SW. I had to ring support to get 4 pieces 
of info to fill in (That's one advantage of Flash-OFDM 4G, nothing to 
configure) via the router's web page.

The only modem/routers & Printer servers I've used over the last 14 
years of doing WAN/LAN  installs that didn't use  web page used either 
SNMP, Telnet or serial terminal. Everything seems to use Web pages now. 
I was slightly surprised to have to use TFTP recently for a firmware 
update, rather than a Web interface. At the time in an office, not my 
own, I downloaded a free TFTP to the users Windows PC, (I'm obviously a  
heretic) and  used it.
 

All you say is quite true. But there is no crime in having Windows or 
not having it.

In fact my latest  Laptop  acquired has no floppy and rather old 
Firmware. Dell do indeed supply Linux installable firmware for such 
machines and rpm fetched the Dell updating tool from the default Fedora 
repository. Obviosly if there is a floppy, the problem does not arise.

-- 
Mike