On 21/06/07, paul at clubi.ie <paul at clubi.ie> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Ian O'Connell wrote:
>> > Despite the extreme unpopularity of Tim's view, for the average
> > scenario he's quite correct, and in all my systems which came
> > pre-installed with windows that partition is re-sized down and left
> > alone.
>> There are at least a few list members who have no use for windows and
> use some flavour of Unix. Not out of zealotry, but because of
> preference, habit, employment and other such sensible reasons.
A use for windows is irrelevent. if the machine came with windows
there is no sensible reason to just delete it unless you've several
machines to hand.
> > just as bad to be a linux zealot as a Microsoft one. If a service
> > engineer comes and installs his dsl do you really want to have to
> > that conversation on linux?
>> If a network service engineer comes along to install networking, or I
> speak to an ISP support desk, I'd expect to have a conversation about
> networking. I wouldn't expect them to know anything about Unix
> though.
what world do you live in? last time i talked with an engineer in one
of the larger isp's here after getting elevated from a support desk to
a network engineer i was informed that ping times and latency are
entirely unrelated....
>> > Whether its right or not is irrelevant, 99% of the worlds pc
> > computers are running windows, when it comes to on site technicians
> > or dealing with phone support regarding hardware faults its only
> > sensible if the machine came with windows then keep it about and
> > don't go causing agro that benefits no one......
>> So what are you suggesting exactly?
>> That all non-windows users must keep a windows partition around?
on one of their machines to hand yes, i don't see why not. you've
already paid for it in the purchase.
> That non-windows users can not use all of their hardware?
Which what now? 10 gigs is a trivial ammount of space these days.
>> To get back to what Tim had written:
>> "I would have expected your ISP to provide a Windows CD
> for setting up ADSL.
> Personally, I would use that if I had a Windows boot option,
> just to set things up.
>> So either:
>> a) We're talking about configuring /windows/, which won't do
> /anything/ for other OSes one might use. (In which case we're
> arguing about whether people should be able use Linux, and the
> like, /at all/)
If an installer comes onsite and wants to configure a windows machine
to use service or do x y z, and wants windows, i'll let him off
configure and get the windows working. Thats fine, it'll test the
networking aspect by doing it. I can come back later with no hassle
and port any settings to linux and go back to not using windows. I
don't need for him to leave early cause he doesn't know what he's
doing to just discover that there is some problem out of my control
but he's now gone since he couldn't test it.....
> or
>> b) We're talking about firmware updates for embedded routers, which
> nearly always support the trivial FTP protocol (TFTP), which just
> about all systems support, including all Unix systems you might
> care about.
which what? most end user systems use a web based mechanism for
updating the firmware not TFTP. Can't say i've come across a consumer
solution requiring TFTP updates of firmware....
> Indeed, the embedded router almost certainly runs a very Unix-like
> OS, if not actual Unix (BSD or Linux).
And thats relevent how? the installer should know linux cause its
embedded somewhere?
>> The desire that it continue to remain possible to have a choice in
> what OS to run is not zealotry.
No but you seem to be suggesting one should limit ones choices not
increase them. Having windows and linux does not limit your choices...
Tim can refresh me here its a year since i finished but 1 + 1 = 2
right which is > 1?
>> Your view however is a sort of awful, false pragmatism. One which
> would eventually lead to a situation that only zealots could agree is
> desireable: a monoculture. Ironic.
Huh what now? a monoculture? not deleting something you paid for
incase you need it some day is a form of being a zealot?
--
Ian.
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