Kae Verens wrote:
> Padraig Kitterick wrote:
>> Please don't tell people to "shut up" and to "stop this crap". If you
>> have a point to make, make it without insulting people. If you have an
>> argument to make, present it in a logical way. Do not just curse and
>> spew crude insults. I don't need that stuff in my inbox thank you.
>> okay - I guess I was touchy about being spammed on what is essentially a
> techie mailing list.
>> the OP even /said/ he was spamming! seriously, if while writing an
> email, you feel the need to apologise for spamming, then don't press the
> Send button.
Fair enough.
> especially as Firefox has been discussed so many times on the
> mailinglist in the last few days and I'm sure everyone knows by now that
> it is available. we don't need yet another reminder, especially one that
> admits it is spamming.
>>> To refute your 'argument': it does matter if firefox is downloaded by
>> a large number of people, and also that the mainstream press knows
>> about it. This will make the use of the browser valid in the eyes of
>> many people who run businesses who would otherwise just force the
>> employees to use IE.
>> it has the feel of a "flash mob" to me, and flash-mobs don't suddenly
> encourage business owners to change perspective on ideas.
>> Firefox is slowly but surely taking over ground - it does not need
> gimmicks and fanboy attitudes. All it needs to do is continue to be more
> solid and useful than the alternatives.
Publicity is an important part of any open-source project; it can lead
to more bug reports, more developers, or even just more feature
requests. It's silly for any project not to try to advertise itself.
>> This in turn may lead to more business updating their intranets and
>> internal web software to not depend on IE5 or 5.5 functionality, thus
>> removing the need for Microsoft to pack IE with multiple compatibility
>> modes and expecting web developers to add more metadata to pages just
>> to select a certain rendering mode.
>> as a web developer myself, I would refute the above - we do not write
> HTML for IE5 at all. In fact, we usually write for Firefox, then test it
> in IE6 and 7 to catch any potential problems.
>> we also encourage our clients to use Firefox - to the point that our CMS
> actually has a big "download firefox" button in the admin area if you
> log in in any other browser.
My point is not related to recently produced software, but the huge
amount of legacy software that businesses are using internally which is
poorly written an heavily dependant on old IE features. It is precisely
because of that software that microsoft does not make it's browser
completely standards complient and why it tries to support a wide
variety of legacy rendering modes (same goes for windows too unfortunately).
> > If Microsoft
>> make IE completely standards compatible by default, it leads to a
>> better and more accessible web.
>> which does not help your argument.
Of course it does. You said yourself that you write apps for firefox but
then have to check IE versions for problems. If you are developing apps
for multiple platforms, including mobile browsers, and other clients
like screen readers, standards are the most effective way at ensuring
the same page is accessible to all and degrades nicely. What the
download firefox campaign is about in part is raising awareness of
standards-based browsing and it's advantages.
>> And if the Firefox download campaign helps to bring that reality even
>> a little closer, I would argue it's worthwhile.
>> well, I don't think it will, and I don't need every second email in my
> mailbox to be firefox propaganda.
> the people that use firefox don't need to be told about it. the people
> that don't use firefox but know about it will just be annoyed by the
> spams. the people that /don't/ know about it will probably not see the
> point anyway.
>
The publicity will make firefox appear in the mainstream press and trade
publications, which in turn could be noticed by those individuals in the
higher tiers of businesses. Frankly, if the next CEO buzzwords to do the
rounds in the board rooms are 'standards compliance browser experience'
and firefox then it's worthwhile.
-P
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