[ILUG] OpenERP demo server

[Bernhard Rohrer]

 Guys

with all the discussion going on here and Mike's Alfresco share, do we want to found a working group with a view to Irishising OpenERP? There are many such localisation groups, they susually live on launchpad, at least partly.

Who'd be interested?

Bernhard

----------------original message-----------------
From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:32:40 +0100
-------------------------------------------------


> OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as powerful as
> openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less cryptic, but I am
> missing project management and a lot of functionality in the CRM, but these are
> the areas that i have looked at most in OpenERP.
>
> As for migration, yes OpenERP SA will sell you scripts, but there are also
> community scripts available.
>
> cheers
>
> Bernhard
>
> ----------------original message-----------------
> From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
> To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:53:44 +0100
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> Interesting :)
>>
>> Now OpenERP is certainly not for the smallest companies any more - you can use
>> it,
>> but if you are a 3 employee shop and intend to stay that way FrontAccounting is
>> probably better for you.
>>
>> I'll admit that I never had a closer look at Adempiere, but given that it is
>> based on
>> Compiere and hence java it does not strike me as lightweight.
>>
>> OpenERP has the multilanguage UI and can defo do up to serious mid-size
>> business.
>> It just got selected by Danone for some of their smaller companies where SAP
>> would
>> be overkill. What I like about OpenERP is that it has bucketloads of
>> extensions
>> and is lightweight and written in python.
>>
>> My reasoning for Ireland is that we can probably cover every Irish company
>> with
>> openERP. And let's face it, a slick UI is important in order to sell the
>> product,
>> especially to small companies. As are lots of contributions for specific
>> uses. I
>> had a short glance at the Apache project but no further. Will remedy that for
>> both
>> products.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Bernhard
>>
>> PS: This discussion is certainly staying interesting ! :o)
>>
>> ----------------original message-----------------
>> From: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com
>> To: ilug at linux.ie
>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:13:04 +0100
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis that
>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud" systems...
>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris Openbooks,
>>>> GNUCash,
>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne, PostBooks,
>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Firstly let me say I was one of the founders of Adempiere so I am bound
>>> to be biased!
>>>
>>> But I like to think I am always open minded so I've always kept an eye
>>> on what the other open ERP projects do. Now, admittedly, it's been a
>>> while since I looked in detail at openERP but the last time I did I
>>> found its list of functionality broad but shallow in comparison to
>>> Adempiere.
>>>
>>> I also remember a discussion of Adempiere Vs. OpenERP, years ago, in the
>>> Adempiere forums and one of the points that came out were there were
>>> 100s of plugins for OpenERP but on close inspection many "plugins" were
>>> adding additional fields... something that takes a couple of minutes in
>>> adempiere and is managed via an Administration UI.
>>>
>>> But I admit that their UI is a lot slicker... now the Adempiere UI is
>>> easily translated and this ability is one of the reason behind the
>>> simplicty. When I say translated, one installation could be used in
>>> multiple languages at the same time... a German using a German UI and an
>>> Irish with a English UI for example. There is also a mechanism to have
>>> the data translated, and documents can be translated and they are
>>> printed in the language defined for the person who the document is sent
>>> to. So it's not just the UI that is translated.
>>>
>>> Another reason is the Adempiere UI is dynamic, depending on your user,
>>> role, the function you are doing or just other field value entered, the
>>> UI can change to add and/or remove fields.
>>>
>>> Now none of that is important to a small or micro businesses in Ireland
>>> [unless you wanted to make like easy for foreign staff perhaps :)] I
>>> know, but was just explaining the reasoning.
>>>
>>> Of course the slick UI of openERP has come from a lot of investment from
>>> the company behind openERP. Adempiere is purely community driven so the
>>> big, costly, advances are slower to be contributed. They do happen
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Now, Adempiere was forked from Compiere, in 2006, another commercial
>>> open source project which has now been sold and is gone!
>>>
>>> One of the techniques Compiere used to raise revenue was it charged for
>>> migration. I'm sure we're all aware that in open source it's important
>>> be able to keep up to date but frequent updating of your core ERP system
>>> is not the norm. It touches so many aspects of a business that once
>>> installed & working people try to touch it as little of possible - less
>>> risk!
>>> But, as anybody who uses open source will know and in particular open
>>> source with a public internet face - security issues means you must
>>> continuously keep up to date.
>>>
>>> Adempiere releases LTS versions and patches are retrofitted to those for
>>> a number of years. And if and when you do decide to migrate it is free!
>>> What is the migration policy for openERP? I think it was like the
>>> Compiere model the last time I looked, i.e. you must buy a support
>>> package to get access to migration scripts.
>>>
>>> Now I know Adempiere is not perfect - but at least it belongs to
>>> everyone and not to a "for now" benign company. I think we've seen a few
>>> examples of the risks this poses in the FLOSS world in recent years.
>>>
>>> Now to muddy the waters even more and say if I couldn't use Adempiere
>>> (and sometimes even when I could) I would lean towards the Apache Open
>>> for Business [OfBiz] project. Again completely open with zero risk of
>>> it becoming closed. The Apache license might even suit some over the
>>> GPL of Admepiere. Adempiere has great a functional design - but OfBiz's
>>> technical design is superb, if somewhat complicated at first glance.
>>> When I consider this project is probably 10 years old the design has
>>> stood the test of time and its SOA like architecture proved to be way
>>> ahead of everyone else - if e-commerce was an important aspect of an ERP
>>> implementation I would be leaning strongly in this direction.
>>>
>>> So I say, look closely at the functionality of openERP & Adempiere...
>>> and in particular at the depth of the actual functionality as opposed to a;
>>> Sales Check,
>>> Purchases Check,
>>> Accounting Check,
>>> type of comparison.
>>> I would be surprised if the openERP could do all Adempiere can. It's
>>> all in the details!
>>>
>>> Mind you if the target were very small companies then perhaps openERP
>>> provides all that is required and anything more complicated is a
>>> hindrance rather than an advantage!?
>>>
>>> Finally, I've said here before I know Admepiere pretty much inside out
>>> (though I've, sadly, not done much work with it in over a year at this
>>> stage) and I know the technical aspects of OfBiz well too - so if anyone
>>> is interested in knowing more I would gladly share what I know to do my
>>> bit to help promote more these truly open projects here in Ireland.
>>>
>>>
>>> Colin
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19/09/11 16:34, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>> On 19/09/2011 13:23, Bernhard Rohrer wrote:
>>>>> actually I would do all my accounting in OpenERP, since it allows
>>>>> for cost accounting and project based accounting and cash flow
>>>>> forecasts and a lot of other things that I really really want.
>>>>
>>>> Super...
>>>>
>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis that
>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud" systems...
>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris Openbooks,
>>>> GNUCash,
>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne, PostBooks,
>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Eg, does OpenERP handle all our basic VAT needs - perhaps with
>>>> add-ins...
>>>>
>>>>> _but_ we also need a way to dump all that info so the accountant can
>>>>> properly massage it and present it to revenue
>>>>
>>>> Technically, that should be simple...
>>>>
>>>> 1. We need a mechanism to get at the data in OpenERP. It's very likely
>>>> that OpenERP has "export" facilities - which allow the user to dump all
>>>> the requested data from the OpenERP DB into some standard format, such
>>>> as CSV, Excel, etc. If not, I expect the DB structures inside OpenERP
>>>> are "standard" (I've not checked - perhaps MySQL, PostGreSQL, etc) -
>>>> in
>>>> which case it should still be easy to extract whatever we need... If
>>>> neither option is available, then, in an emergency, we could
>>>> "reverse-engineer" the internal filing systems, but that's getting
>>>> serious!, and surely not necessary.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Then, we need to identify which "Accounting/Auditing" systems are
>>>> used by the Accountants, and what "Import" facilities are available -
>>>> perhaps CSV files; perhaps databases from "sister" bookkeeping
>>>> systems.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Finally, we'd need to re-jig the OpenERP data into the latter. That
>>>> should be a simple task, if both of the data-formats are well defined.
>>>> (I can certainly handle that aspect - if needed).
>>>>
>>>> M.
>>>>
>>>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>>>> From: "Michael Kennedy" Info at kennedysoftware.ie
>>>>> To: "Harry Duncan" usr.src.linux at gmail.com
>>>>> CC: ilug at linux.ie
>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:58:38 +0100
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I worked on a project where we implemented the ROS XML
>>>>>>> schema's
>>>>>>> previously, for something like VAT it is simple and quick
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> larger forms it is quite tedious eg corporation tax and
>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>> tax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, your experience ties in exactly with what I would expect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, just on the VAT support, an important aspect would be the
>>>>>> internal
>>>>>> VAT features in the app (rather than the extracts for Revenue).
>>>>>> Eg,
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to handle changes in VAT-rates, support for the
>>>>>> Cash-Accounting
>>>>>> schemes,
>>>>>> support for exempt customers or suppliers, exported
>>>>>> goods/services, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would question though the value in having a completely
>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>> solution, I've been doing a demo test of openerp for a
>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the goal is not to provide a full integrated accounts system
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> rather to use OpenERP for supply chain through to sales and
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>> support tool, dump invoice lists out of openerp for the
>>>>>>> accountant
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> import into their book keeping to handle all the tax
>>>>>>> compliance
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are distinct advantages from a revenue audit
>>>>>>> perspective to
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> having a totally integrated solution/ Seems that it is an
>>>>>>> expectation
>>>>>>> of revenue that they can now take a complete dump of your
>>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>>> system to electronically analyse and they have put quite a
>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> money into software for this purpose. If you run a fully
>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>> system you're a lamb to the slaughter and will be the largest
>>>>>>> repayer
>>>>>>> of bank bailouts for years to come, keep your accounting
>>>>>>> practices
>>>>>>> business unit focused and you're back to the playing court
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> provide complete accounts and they do the footwork with a
>>>>>>> calculator
>>>>>>> in an audit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very good points, Harry. Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, the Accountant probably already has Accounting systems
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> whatever features (s)he requires - auditing/accounting
>>>>>> features,
>>>>>> links
>>>>>> to ROS/CRO, etc, etc, (eg, Apex). In that case, the requirement
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> to automate the transfer of the data/transactions from
>>>>>> OpenERP to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> A/c system, rather than to have to manually re-key the data.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> be quite easy, technically:
>>>>>> - get the data out of OpenERP, perhaps in a CSV or "Excel" format
>>>>>> - re-hash that into the structures needed for the Import
>>>>>> options of
>>>>>> the accounting systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another colleague of mine who downloaded the OpenERP
>>>>>>> package
>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>> than me was contacted by a partner in Kerry. They clearly got
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>> from the OpenERP guys, but aren't listed on the site yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also did not notice any mentions of Irish agents, etc, in my
>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>> searches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, in case it's a whole waste of time, first we'd need to
>>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there's no other similar FOSS "Cloud" system out there
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>> already implemented!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not an issue. Everybody knows somebody who's had a hotmail /
>>>>>>> yahoo
>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>> gmail account hacked / hijacked. Translate that scenario
>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>> cloud
>>>>>>> accounting solution. Until cloud solutions are based on
>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>> token
>>>>>>> based authentication businesses would be mad to expose
>>>>>>> themselves to
>>>>>>> that degree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oooppss... I misled you - I was referring to the VAT features,
>>>>>> etc,
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> OpenERP. I meant that we should try to check if someone had
>>>>>> already
>>>>>> implemented the VAT stuff, ROS interfaces, etc, in OpenERP
>>>>>> (but is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> here on ILUG), or if these features are already in some other
>>>>>> FOSS/Cloud
>>>>>> systems similar to OpenERP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>>>> About this list :
>>>>>> http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------
>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>> 529 Howth Road
>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>
>> +353 87 7907 134
>>
>> --
>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>
>
> --
> -------------
> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
> 529 Howth Road
> Dublin 5, Ireland
>
> +353 87 7907 134
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>

--
-------------
Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
529 Howth Road
Dublin 5, Ireland

+353 87 7907 134