[ILUG] OpenERP demo server

[Bernhard Rohrer]

 Interesting questions - on a lot of these i will have to come back to you. Expenses can be logged and allocated to customers or projects no problem. The sales part - I need to ckeck, give me a few days. :)

/B

----------------original message-----------------
From: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com
To: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
CC: ilug at linux.ie
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:20:59 +0100
-------------------------------------------------


> Yes, it is a java enterprise based application so might be heavier ok.
> Out of the box it comes with JBoss Application Server but it can be
> configured to run on just Tomcat.
>
> Originally it was a swing UI app and the web UI is a new addition.
> Some people prefer the swing, some the UI - I think it nice to have
> the choice and both look pretty much the same. The system is based on
> something we call the Application Dictionary. In it you define the
> tables & columns, windows, tabs & fields; when I change a definition
> in the Application Dictionary both my UI will change automatically.
> So they are two views of the same thing.
>
> re: project management
> It is there. I don't rate the module much but the basics are there.
> And Sales/Purchases can be attributed projects/tasks as can issues
> from inventory. Pretty basic stuff though nothing fancy at all.
>
> re: CRM
> CRM as in the Sales Force Automation sense isn't great I agree but
> there is an Australian company (Adaxa) involved with the project that
> has done some work in this area, including integrating Adempiere with
> Asterix. With pop screens and extending the Application Dictionary to
> define field types as telephone numbers so that when a field of this
> type appears on screen a little phone icon appears - clicking calls
> the number. That is not in trunk as yet but eventually it will be.
> The current version has a rudimentary functionality called Requests
> that allows for the tracking of different types of customer requests
> (or requests from any party related to the business really). It's
> basic but does include routing of the request based on rules as well
> as escalation when timelines are not met.
>
> re: Adempiere appears to be not as powerful as openERP from what I see
> Ok, well I too had a quick look at openERP and again after a quick
> look so perhaps I am missing something fundamental ... but it still
> seems to be broad but shallow in terms of functionality.
> By that I mean... well perhaps I could ask about some functionality
> Adempiere has.
>
> Let's start with sales...
> I see in the sale menu the product & a price.
> What if I sell to whole & retail and so have different prices does it
> handle that? What about the same product in different currencies?
> Simply using exchange rates is not sufficient as other costs can be
> different too so the price in the two area might bear little
> relevance. Can I generate prices? Say markup all products of a
> specific category or/or from a specific supplier by 43% and round that
> to the closest .99?
> What if I got an letter from my supplier and they will change their
> prices in two months - so I will change mine in two months. Can I
> prepare these changes (in the purchase & multiple sale price lists) so
> that on the date in question the new prices will be applied to sales &
> purchases?
> On the topic what options do I have for product costing? Standard,
> Average, Lifo, Fifo? (I think Fifo might not be allowed here!)
> How are the costs of sales determined? does it use the perpetual
> inventory approach common in large organizations?
> That question reminds me about stock valuations... and hence physical
> stock counts. I assume it can do a simple stock count but what about
> a Cycle Stock Count?
> Can I indicate on the sales that sales (or all sales to this customer
> for that matter) should only be shipped when the whole order is ready?
> Can I define limits under which an item cannot be sold? or only when
> approved by the supervisor of the user entering the Sales Order?
> I assume I can ship to one address and invoice another - but can I
> invoice another customer? i.e. sell good to a subsidiary but invoice
> their HQ which might be a different company!
> Can I apply volume discounts to a product?
> What about a promotional items? buy 2 of x and a 1 Y free!
> Can I generate a PO from a sales directly or generate consolidated
> purchase orders that will combine the needs of all sales (as well as
> possible warehouse replenishment rules) to generated 1 PO per
> supplier?
> Is there any dunning functionality? And related to that can I
> automatically modify a customer terms as their lack of payment is
> escalated?
> Can I log expenses? can I allocate them to a customer/project? can I
> generate, if required, invoices a customer to be reimbursed for these?
>
> I'm just touching the top of the iceberg here with regards to
> Adempiere - but these are examples of things that when I briefly (and
> I stress that) looked at openERP before I didn't see.
>
> re: FrontAccounting
> Interesting that is a new project for me - when I was recommending
> something simple (without accounting) previously I usually point
> towards vTigerCRM
>
> Anyway, good luck with the localization project. I don't know python
> so can't help but I'll keep on eye on it :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Colin
>
> On 28 September 2011 11:32, Bernhard Rohrer graylion at sm-wg.net wrote:
>> OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as powerful
>> as openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less cryptic,
>> but I am missing project management and a lot of functionality in the CRM, but
>> these are the areas that i of it but all the basics are there.
>
>
> On 28 September 2011 11:32, Bernhard Rohrer graylion at sm-wg.net wrote:
>> OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as powerful
>> as openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less cryptic,
>> but I am missing project management and a lot of functionality in the CRM, but
>> these are the areas that i
> On 28 September 2011 11:32, Bernhard Rohrer graylion at sm-wg.net wrote:
>> OK, I had a look at the live demo of Adempiere and it appears to be not as
>> powerful as openERP from what I see. The interface is actually somewhat less
>> cryptic, but I am missing project management and a lot of functionality in the
>> CRM, but these are the areas that i have looked at most in OpenERP.
>>
>> As for migration, yes OpenERP SA will sell you scripts, but there are also
>> community scripts available.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Bernhard
>>
>> ----------------original message-----------------
>> From: "Bernhard Rohrer" graylion at sm-wg.net
>> To: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com , ilug at linux.ie
>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:53:44 +0100
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> Interesting :)
>>>
>>> Now OpenERP is certainly not for the smallest companies any more - you can
>>> use it,
>>> but if you are a 3 employee shop and intend to stay that way FrontAccounting
>>> is
>>> probably better for you.
>>>
>>> I'll admit that I never had a closer look at Adempiere, but given that it is
>>> based on
>>> Compiere and hence java it does not strike me as lightweight.
>>>
>>> OpenERP has the multilanguage UI and can defo do up to serious mid-size
>>> business.
>>> It just got selected by Danone for some of their smaller companies where
>>> SAP would
>>> be overkill. What I like about OpenERP is that it has bucketloads of
>>> extensions
>>> and is lightweight and written in python.
>>>
>>> My reasoning for Ireland is that we can probably cover every Irish company
>>> with
>>> openERP. And let's face it, a slick UI is important in order to sell the
>>> product,
>>> especially to small companies. As are lots of contributions for specific
>>> uses. I
>>> had a short glance at the Apache project but no further. Will remedy that
>>> for both
>>> products.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> Bernhard
>>>
>>> PS: This discussion is certainly staying interesting ! :o)
>>>
>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>> From: "Colin Rooney" colin.rooney at gmail.com
>>> To: ilug at linux.ie
>>> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 08:13:04 +0100
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis
>>>>> that
>>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud"
>>>>> systems...
>>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris
>>>>> Openbooks,
>>>>> GNUCash,
>>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne,
>>>>> PostBooks,
>>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Firstly let me say I was one of the founders of Adempiere so I am bound
>>>> to be biased!
>>>>
>>>> But I like to think I am always open minded so I've always kept an eye
>>>> on what the other open ERP projects do. Now, admittedly, it's been a
>>>> while since I looked in detail at openERP but the last time I did I
>>>> found its list of functionality broad but shallow in comparison to
>>>> Adempiere.
>>>>
>>>> I also remember a discussion of Adempiere Vs. OpenERP, years ago, in
>>>> the
>>>> Adempiere forums and one of the points that came out were there were
>>>> 100s of plugins for OpenERP but on close inspection many "plugins"
>>>> were
>>>> adding additional fields... something that takes a couple of minutes
>>>> in
>>>> adempiere and is managed via an Administration UI.
>>>>
>>>> But I admit that their UI is a lot slicker... now the Adempiere UI is
>>>> easily translated and this ability is one of the reason behind the
>>>> simplicty. When I say translated, one installation could be used in
>>>> multiple languages at the same time... a German using a German UI and
>>>> an
>>>> Irish with a English UI for example. There is also a mechanism to have
>>>> the data translated, and documents can be translated and they are
>>>> printed in the language defined for the person who the document is
>>>> sent
>>>> to. So it's not just the UI that is translated.
>>>>
>>>> Another reason is the Adempiere UI is dynamic, depending on your
>>>> user,
>>>> role, the function you are doing or just other field value entered,
>>>> the
>>>> UI can change to add and/or remove fields.
>>>>
>>>> Now none of that is important to a small or micro businesses in Ireland
>>>> [unless you wanted to make like easy for foreign staff perhaps :)] I
>>>> know, but was just explaining the reasoning.
>>>>
>>>> Of course the slick UI of openERP has come from a lot of investment from
>>>> the company behind openERP. Adempiere is purely community driven so
>>>> the
>>>> big, costly, advances are slower to be contributed. They do happen
>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> Now, Adempiere was forked from Compiere, in 2006, another
>>>> commercial
>>>> open source project which has now been sold and is gone!
>>>>
>>>> One of the techniques Compiere used to raise revenue was it charged
>>>> for
>>>> migration. I'm sure we're all aware that in open source it's
>>>> important
>>>> be able to keep up to date but frequent updating of your core ERP system
>>>> is not the norm. It touches so many aspects of a business that once
>>>> installed & working people try to touch it as little of possible - less
>>>> risk!
>>>> But, as anybody who uses open source will know and in particular open
>>>> source with a public internet face - security issues means you must
>>>> continuously keep up to date.
>>>>
>>>> Adempiere releases LTS versions and patches are retrofitted to those
>>>> for
>>>> a number of years. And if and when you do decide to migrate it is free!
>>>> What is the migration policy for openERP? I think it was like the
>>>> Compiere model the last time I looked, i.e. you must buy a support
>>>> package to get access to migration scripts.
>>>>
>>>> Now I know Adempiere is not perfect - but at least it belongs to
>>>> everyone and not to a "for now" benign company. I think we've seen a few
>>>> examples of the risks this poses in the FLOSS world in recent years.
>>>>
>>>> Now to muddy the waters even more and say if I couldn't use Adempiere
>>>> (and sometimes even when I could) I would lean towards the Apache Open
>>>> for Business [OfBiz] project. Again completely open with zero risk
>>>> of
>>>> it becoming closed. The Apache license might even suit some over the
>>>> GPL of Admepiere. Adempiere has great a functional design - but
>>>> OfBiz's
>>>> technical design is superb, if somewhat complicated at first
>>>> glance.
>>>> When I consider this project is probably 10 years old the design has
>>>> stood the test of time and its SOA like architecture proved to be way
>>>> ahead of everyone else - if e-commerce was an important aspect of an
>>>> ERP
>>>> implementation I would be leaning strongly in this direction.
>>>>
>>>> So I say, look closely at the functionality of openERP & Adempiere...
>>>> and in particular at the depth of the actual functionality as opposed
>>>> to a;
>>>> Sales Check,
>>>> Purchases Check,
>>>> Accounting Check,
>>>> type of comparison.
>>>> I would be surprised if the openERP could do all Adempiere can. It's
>>>> all in the details!
>>>>
>>>> Mind you if the target were very small companies then perhaps openERP
>>>> provides all that is required and anything more complicated is a
>>>> hindrance rather than an advantage!?
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I've said here before I know Admepiere pretty much inside
>>>> out
>>>> (though I've, sadly, not done much work with it in over a year at this
>>>> stage) and I know the technical aspects of OfBiz well too - so if anyone
>>>> is interested in knowing more I would gladly share what I know to do my
>>>> bit to help promote more these truly open projects here in Ireland.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Colin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19/09/11 16:34, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>> On 19/09/2011 13:23, Bernhard Rohrer wrote:
>>>>>> actually I would do all my accounting in OpenERP, since it
>>>>>> allows
>>>>>> for cost accounting and project based accounting and cash
>>>>>> flow
>>>>>> forecasts and a lot of other things that I really really want.
>>>>>
>>>>> Super...
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless someone advises us otherwise, can we proceed on the basis
>>>>> that
>>>>> OpenERP is "as good as it gets" - compared to other "Cloud"
>>>>> systems...
>>>>> Eg, Xero, KashFlow, FrontAccounting, FreeAgent/Iris
>>>>> Openbooks,
>>>>> GNUCash,
>>>>> xTuple, LedgerSMB, TurboCash, SQL-Ledger, SageOne,
>>>>> PostBooks,
>>>>> OpenBravo,
>>>>> Adempiere, WebERP, GnuAccounting - to name but a few ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Eg, does OpenERP handle all our basic VAT needs - perhaps with
>>>>> add-ins...
>>>>>
>>>>>> _but_ we also need a way to dump all that info so the accountant
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> properly massage it and present it to revenue
>>>>>
>>>>> Technically, that should be simple...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. We need a mechanism to get at the data in OpenERP. It's very
>>>>> likely
>>>>> that OpenERP has "export" facilities - which allow the user to dump
>>>>> all
>>>>> the requested data from the OpenERP DB into some standard format,
>>>>> such
>>>>> as CSV, Excel, etc. If not, I expect the DB structures inside
>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>> are "standard" (I've not checked - perhaps MySQL, PostGreSQL,
>>>>> etc) - in
>>>>> which case it should still be easy to extract whatever we need...
>>>>> If
>>>>> neither option is available, then, in an emergency, we could
>>>>> "reverse-engineer" the internal filing systems, but that's
>>>>> getting
>>>>> serious!, and surely not necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Then, we need to identify which "Accounting/Auditing" systems
>>>>> are
>>>>> used by the Accountants, and what "Import" facilities are
>>>>> available -
>>>>> perhaps CSV files; perhaps databases from "sister" bookkeeping
>>>>> systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Finally, we'd need to re-jig the OpenERP data into the latter.
>>>>> That
>>>>> should be a simple task, if both of the data-formats are well
>>>>> defined.
>>>>> (I can certainly handle that aspect - if needed).
>>>>>
>>>>> M.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------original message-----------------
>>>>>> From: "Michael Kennedy" Info at kennedysoftware.ie
>>>>>> To: "Harry Duncan" usr.src.linux at gmail.com
>>>>>> CC: ilug at linux.ie
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 11:58:38 +0100
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I worked on a project where we implemented the ROS XML
>>>>>>>> schema's
>>>>>>>> previously, for something like VAT it is simple and
>>>>>>>> quick but
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> larger forms it is quite tedious eg corporation tax and
>>>>>>>> income
>>>>>>>> tax.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, your experience ties in exactly with what I would
>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, just on the VAT support, an important aspect would be
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> internal
>>>>>>> VAT features in the app (rather than the extracts for
>>>>>>> Revenue). Eg,
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to handle changes in VAT-rates, support for the
>>>>>>> Cash-Accounting
>>>>>>> schemes,
>>>>>>> support for exempt customers or suppliers, exported
>>>>>>> goods/services, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would question though the value in having a
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>> solution, I've been doing a demo test of openerp for a
>>>>>>>> business
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the goal is not to provide a full integrated accounts
>>>>>>>> system but
>>>>>>>> rather to use OpenERP for supply chain through to sales
>>>>>>>> and as a
>>>>>>>> sales
>>>>>>>> support tool, dump invoice lists out of openerp for the
>>>>>>>> accountant
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> import into their book keeping to handle all the tax
>>>>>>>> compliance
>>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are distinct advantages from a revenue audit
>>>>>>>> perspective to
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> having a totally integrated solution/ Seems that it is
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> expectation
>>>>>>>> of revenue that they can now take a complete dump of your
>>>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>>>> system to electronically analyse and they have put
>>>>>>>> quite a bit
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> money into software for this purpose. If you run a fully
>>>>>>>> integrated
>>>>>>>> system you're a lamb to the slaughter and will be the
>>>>>>>> largest
>>>>>>>> repayer
>>>>>>>> of bank bailouts for years to come, keep your
>>>>>>>> accounting
>>>>>>>> practices
>>>>>>>> business unit focused and you're back to the playing
>>>>>>>> court
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> provide complete accounts and they do the footwork with
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> calculator
>>>>>>>> in an audit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very good points, Harry. Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, the Accountant probably already has Accounting
>>>>>>> systems
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> whatever features (s)he requires - auditing/accounting
>>>>>>> features,
>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>> to ROS/CRO, etc, etc, (eg, Apex). In that case, the
>>>>>>> requirement
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> to automate the transfer of the data/transactions from
>>>>>>> OpenERP to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> A/c system, rather than to have to manually re-key the data.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> be quite easy, technically:
>>>>>>> - get the data out of OpenERP, perhaps in a CSV or "Excel"
>>>>>>> format
>>>>>>> - re-hash that into the structures needed for the Import
>>>>>>> options of
>>>>>>> the accounting systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another colleague of mine who downloaded the OpenERP
>>>>>>>> package
>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>> than me was contacted by a partner in Kerry. They clearly
>>>>>>>> got the
>>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>>> from the OpenERP guys, but aren't listed on the site
>>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also did not notice any mentions of Irish agents, etc, in
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> OpenERP
>>>>>>> searches.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But, in case it's a whole waste of time, first we'd
>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>> ensure
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there's no other similar FOSS "Cloud" system out
>>>>>>>>> there with
>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>> already implemented!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not an issue. Everybody knows somebody who's had a
>>>>>>>> hotmail /
>>>>>>>> yahoo
>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>> gmail account hacked / hijacked. Translate that
>>>>>>>> scenario to a
>>>>>>>> cloud
>>>>>>>> accounting solution. Until cloud solutions are based
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> strong
>>>>>>>> token
>>>>>>>> based authentication businesses would be mad to
>>>>>>>> expose
>>>>>>>> themselves to
>>>>>>>> that degree.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oooppss... I misled you - I was referring to the VAT
>>>>>>> features, etc,
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> OpenERP. I meant that we should try to check if someone had
>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>> implemented the VAT stuff, ROS interfaces, etc, in OpenERP
>>>>>>> (but is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> here on ILUG), or if these features are already in some
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> FOSS/Cloud
>>>>>>> systems similar to OpenERP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Mike
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>>>>> About this list :
>>>>>>> http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------
>>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>>> 529 Howth Road
>>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>>
>>> +353 87 7907 134
>>>
>>> --
>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------
>> Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
>> 529 Howth Road
>> Dublin 5, Ireland
>>
>> +353 87 7907 134
>>
>>
>

--
-------------
Bernhard Rohrer Consulting
529 Howth Road
Dublin 5, Ireland

+353 87 7907 134