[ILUG] Re: p2p Decentralised Backup

[Michael Jonker]

I am also trying to understand it. The way I have it in my head is that 
files are fragmented, so your backup may be on 1000 individual machines, 
but each machine may only contain 1/1000th (or 1/500th, 1/250th 
depending on redundancy ratio) of any of your individual files. These 
fragments are encrypted.

  I can only imagine that something akin to the Bitcoin decentralised 
tracker maps how Humpty Dumpty gets re-assembled! This way bandwidth 
demand is equally distributed.

There of course also has to be redundancy - what ratio works I have no 
idea. I can glean by Symform that a certain element of payment for the 
service is how much storage you contribute as a factor of the uptime of 
that storage. After that it is a monthy/ annual dollar fee for size of 
storage. They may be providing storage space themselves for redundancy 
or, more likely, operating like the airlines and overbooking on the 
likelihood of a percentage of cancellations. (The amount of data for a 
user will be less than capacity the majority of the time)

On 18/07/2012 12:24, keith hyland wrote:
> p2p offers massive redundancy, which is good: if you want to do a restore
> and a client isn't online, then you get the missing data someplace else.
> this distributed data model works well where the data is shared and used by
> all players. However, backups would tend to be private, and not shared.
> Using a 100:1 redundancy ratio, every bit of information i backup is
> replicated 100 fold as private and unusable data on 100 other disks -
> likewise, my disk contains 100 backups from other users?
>
> or have i completely missed the point?
> keith
>
>
> On 18 July 2012 12:00, <ilug-request at linux.ie> wrote:
>
>> Send ILUG mailing list submissions to
>>          ilug at linux.ie
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>          http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>          ilug-request at linux.ie
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>          ilug-owner at linux.ie
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of ILUG digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Re: Fedora 8 text mode installation trouble (peter morgan)
>>     2. p2p Decentralised Backup (Michael Jonker)
>>     3. Re: p2p Decentralised Backup (Kevin Lyda)
>>     4. Re: p2p Decentralised Backup (Michael Jonker)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:35:49 +0100
>>> From: peter morgan <pbmorg at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ILUG] Fedora 8 text mode installation trouble
>> To: Frank Murphy <frankly3d at gmail.com>
>> Cc: ilug at linux.ie
>> Message-ID:
>>          <
>> CANGC6uphmADNbR762o9Ka5s7Q66sKy19ZuxPtwmg6kbvZErZiA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Thanks for such a brilliant response, I will be working on this
>> tonight and tomorrow and will let you know how it goes…
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 7/17/12, Frank Murphy <frankly3d at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 16/07/12 23:44, peter morgan wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to install Fedora 8 from a live CD onto a laptop. The laptop
>>>> is
>>>> old and is unable to use the graphical installation process (I gave up
>>>> after about 30 mins of waiting for it to boot up).
>>>>
>>> Are you on Broadband?
>>> if Yes:
>>> Depending on your needs
>>> https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/#about
>>> https://spins.fedoraproject.org/lxde/
>>>
>>>
>>> Support:
>>> Depending on how "old" your book is,
>>> Maybe the LiveCD came with it?
>>>
>>> Give it a miss, and grab newer info
>>> from fpo directly:
>>> http://ask.fedoraproject.org/faq/
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/en/get-help
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Frank
>>> "Jack of all, fubars"
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:00:14 +0100
>>> From: Michael Jonker <michael at openpoint.ie>
>> Subject: [ILUG] p2p Decentralised Backup
>> To: ilug at linux.ie
>> Message-ID: <5006892E.6080505 at openpoint.ie>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
>>
>> I am researching strategies for decentralised backup solutions which are
>> economical, scalable, suitable for SMB's and Linux compatible. Ideally
>> these should also be FOSS.
>>
>> So far the only mature looking service I have found is Symform
>> <http://www.symform.com/>, but this is proprietary, has no Linux client
>> and IMO expensive if you are giving back equal/more disk space.
>> http://www.symform.com/
>>
>> I have also found these (not mature) options:
>> Infinit:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinit
>> http://www.infinit.io/
>>
>> Backupp2p:
>> http://backupp2p.pbworks.com/w/page/11416763/FrontPage
>>
>> Does anybody have insight, advice, suggestions regarding distributed p2p
>> backup solutions?
>> I find the concept intriguing and progressive when compared to big data
>> warehouses.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Michael Jonker
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:24:51 +0100
>>> From: Kevin Lyda <kevin at ie.suberic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [ILUG] p2p Decentralised Backup
>> To: Michael Jonker <michael at openpoint.ie>
>> Cc: ilug at linux.ie
>> Message-ID:
>>          <CADJ56BQFzwOG9ZCqkD5zkhhZ4KzkAz6NtGANaCht=A7KJz9i=
>> g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Michael Jonker <michael at openpoint.ie>
>> wrote:
>>> I am researching strategies for decentralised backup solutions which are
>>> economical, scalable, suitable for SMB's and Linux compatible. Ideally
>> these
>>> should also be FOSS.
>> This is not p2p, but it looks interesting:
>> http://www.tarsnap.com/index.html
>>
>> I'm not sure what p2p would bring. It's generally only a single
>> machine at a single time that does a restore. If you have several
>> machines likely to restore the same data at the same time, I see a win
>> there for p2p, but not really for other things.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Lyda
>> Dublin, Ireland
>> US Citizen overseas? We can vote.
>> Register now: http://www.votefromabroad.org/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:51:46 +0100
>>> From: Michael Jonker <michael at openpoint.ie>
>> Subject: Re: [ILUG] p2p Decentralised Backup
>> To: Kevin Lyda <kevin at ie.suberic.net>
>> Cc: ilug at linux.ie
>> Message-ID: <50069542.4070809 at openpoint.ie>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> On 18/07/2012 11:24, Kevin Lyda wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Michael Jonker <michael at openpoint.ie>
>> wrote:
>>>> I am researching strategies for decentralised backup solutions which are
>>>> economical, scalable, suitable for SMB's and Linux compatible. Ideally
>> these
>>>> should also be FOSS.
>>> This is not p2p, but it looks interesting:
>> http://www.tarsnap.com/index.html
>>> I'm not sure what p2p would bring. It's generally only a single
>>> machine at a single time that does a restore. If you have several
>>> machines likely to restore the same data at the same time, I see a win
>>> there for p2p, but not really for other things.
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>> Tarsnap looks interesting but is essentially a (corporately) centralised
>> service running on Amazon S3. I am taking a 'Mars View' look at a global
>> storage system where millions of independent machines are running anyway
>> with heaps of storage. Using this to provide an always on redundant
>> backup system makes more sense for our species than hoarding data in
>> huge centralised, power hungry, politically corruptible banks.
>>
>> For a small to medium business (not prioritising 0 downtime at disk
>> failure) the model could also make sense. In simplified principal you
>> have a master disk of x capacity and a backup disk of x capacity. You
>> give your x backup capacity to the p2p network and in exchange get x
>> failsafe, redundant, off site storage at a known, fixed, low cost. Users
>> (staff) can sync relevant work folders to the client machines from the
>> p2p network (pretty much like Dropbox) - your whole information
>> ecosystem redundantly backed up, synced and accessible at a 1:1 disk
>> ratio. Sounds sweet until somebody points out the flaw in my logic :)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> --
>> Irish Linux Users' Group mailing list
>> About this list : http://mail.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug
>> Who we are : http://www.linux.ie/
>> Where we are : http://www.linux.ie/map/
>>
>> End of ILUG Digest, Vol 81, Issue 8
>> ***********************************
>>
>>