From: kevin lyda (kevin at domain suberic.net)
Date: Sun 07 May 2000 - 23:08:46 IST
sorry to reply on list, but i just don't want anyone to think that
jonathan's reply made good business sense. i'm all for irish hosting
sites - based here or in the usa. i'm all for people making money, and
i hope people on this list do just that.
however in working with customers i would hope people could do so w/o
insulting them in various ways. be it this message, or random windows
popping up and consuming time and effort that the company was unwilling
to take. (i suspect that in the end jonathan's comment to my difficulty
in closing the window would be, "well just how many people use your
version of gnome/sawmill? why should we test that?" to which my
response would be, "i'm looking for a place to host one or two sites,
and possibly more in the future.")
i highly suggest that as people here progress in their companies, they
keep in mind other companies that have been supportive of
linux/freebsd/etc users. those are companies that will help people in
spite of "market share," and that have a commitment to a quality product
or service. those are also companies that have a good chance of
treating their customers civilly and with some concern to their needs.
apparently unlike...
Jonathan Stein stein at domain darklite.com wrote:
> Niall wrote:
> > I wonder why did you remove them ?
> I actaully thought you had a good point, as I said in the earlier posting -
> to be honest I never considered the possibility that linux users would have
> difficulty closing the floating window.
as a point of reference, i use gnome with a sawmill window manager with
focus on mouse. alt-w did NOT work (and as a rule i *don't* find that
alt-w causes netscape to crash). the pop-up window followed me between
workspaces, didn't show it's title bar (therefore i couldn't click a
close window button), and continued to persist after leaving your site.
i tried alt-w, dragging the window (i bind alt-button1 to move windows
no matter what wm i use), xkill (that killed netscape), and finally
shutting down javascript.
and if you thought *i* had a good point, why send the ever so friendly
message to the list that you did? is "gee, you're right, and your mom
smells," a phrase taught in mba courses? when i read that you removed
it i began writing a reply to apologise... then i read the rest of the
messages. now i'm thinking i was too kind.
in another message you suggested i was an uninterested third party.
actually no, i *was* a potential customer for at least one site,
possibly two, and with a possibility of growing beyond that if things
worked out well. at best i can thank you for narrowing my choices.
> Again, perhaps I should have designed the page with linux browsers in mind,
> but if you cannot close a window on the browser, thats something for the
> software to answer to.
netscape is quite easily the worst piece of software i run on this box.
i regularly download other browsers to see if i can find a viable
alternative - i've even tried ie under wine (version 3.0 worked back in
1997 or so).
that said, your content sucked. it wasn't the browsers fault, bar
allowing people to do it. i'm on a 800x600 screen, and the desktop my
browser is on is pretty consumed by the browser window(s) - a pop-up
moving window doesn't help matters. i'm looking into wearable computing
options, and in that case i'd have to live with 640x480. guess what my
opinion about pop-up ads would be then?
> [johnathan's critique of suberic.net deleted]
> > Suberic.net does its job, without needless graphic clutter, and would be
> > quite usable by a visually handicapped user.
the person you're replying to is not the person who complained, namely
me. i always appreciate it when companies pay attention to their
potential customers...
suberic.net is a machine for a group of friends to use. the closest
thing it does to a business related matter is provide resources for a
charitable group that provides housing for battered women. they don't
really need a tremendous amount of graphics to cover their issues, but
they do need html to provide links to various resources in
massachussetts. thanks for your commentary on the site, i don't think
i'll pass it along to deborah.
as for my own web site (entitled: "kevin's lame web page") i do have a
rather large graphic. somehow i don't think my leg hairs or the smurf
turn out quite so well as ascii art so again i'll have to pass on the
text idea.
> The topic was design, my site also does its job - and the I doubt any
> business customer would be impressed with a plaintext webpage without any
> other content. I would prefer the service and design of a site to be
> evaluated by customers first, peers second, and unrelated viewers with more
> critisism than your average secondary school teacher, last.
well i was a potential customer. the banner ad was a definite negative,
the removal of it was a positive, and your response and attitude on this
list would be a stupendous negative. i have absolutely no problem with
people trying to make a living. i do however wonder about your methods
of doing so.
> As you can see, there is 0% packet loss, and since the 'best' most clients
> will have is a ISDN or the more likely 56k modem, I would doubt they would
> make any dent into the massive ISP transatlantic capacity. So while
> primarily I agree with you - I don't think any of my clients would be
> willing to pay more than four times my current prices for a what amounts to
> a non noticable speed increase.
suberic.net is also based in the states, and while i'm sure it's got a
very lame link compared to your wonderful network, i find doing things
in the shell there to be laggy to the point of annoyance. i don't do
all that much beyond fetch my mail, and a bit of copying files about,
but even with ssh/scp and compression the link is noticably slow. and i
get 0% packet loss as well.
that said a majority of ecommerce happens in the usa, they're probably
the best connected nation in the world, and it makes sense to have your
site there (though i think legal issues wrt encryption, taxation, and
"decency" issues may become more of a problem over time).
in case my point isn't clear, a site that offers web site design as a
service and spews up pop-up windows is a site that i find unappealing.
a company that responds to my complaints, annoying and blunt might they
be, with insults and a grudging retreat will only see money from me if i
develop a hole in my pocket while walking past the main entrance.
kevin
ps as far as my bankruptcy comment goes, i wasn't wishing it upon you,
but just following a logical progression with the hope of finding some
way for money to fall into your pocket.
--
kevin at domain suberic.net "we were goin' for breakfast. in canada. we
fork()'ed on 37058400 made a deal: if she'd stop hookin', i'd stop
meatspace place: home shootin' people. maybe we were aiming high."
--porter, "payback"
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